Bijonları Yağlamak

[Serkan Toker]

Ters diş olduğu için hiç bir sıkıntı olmaz....Sonradan sökülmesi daha kolay olur bijonların..

[Evren Erakçora]

Tork anahtarı kullansa yeter , yağlamaya ne gerek vardı.

[Abdurrahman Balaban]

Yağlı olmaları montajını kolaylaştırabilir fakat sakıncası neymiş ,yerinden mi çıkarlar 

[Servet Aydın]

Ters diş olduğu için hiç bir sıkıntı olmaz....Sonradan sökülmesi daha kolay olur bijonların..

Teker dönüş yönünde ters olması bişey ifade etmez. Bijon kendi ekseninde düz ama

[Mehmet Göktürk]

konuyu açan kayıp

yağlanmış bijonlar belli oldu

 

Geldim geldim.

 

Saplamaları yağladı ford fusionda.birer damla. Adamın yaptıklarına dikkat ettim bilgili duruyordu çözemedim.

 

Şu an passât ile izmire geldim. Onun da yazlık 1.5 senelik primacy3 ler öyle bir sesli hale gelmiş ki sanırsın rulmanlar dağılıyor. otobüs gibi oldu araç ses yönünden. Frene basınca da ses değişiyor lastik şekil değiştirdi diye. yatay üst üste saklamıştım ondan mı oldu acaba ama kışlıkları takınca da sessiz olduydu primacy 3 ten sonra.

 

Ford'u şimdi geri gidince yeniden sıkıp kontrol edeyim elle bakalım.

Adamın dediği şuydu. buraları çok az yağlarsan ömürlük olur saplamaların. Yoksa sök tak sök tak biri gelir diş yedirir. ya da lastik patladığında sökemezsin çok sert olur. Dediğine göre gevşek bijon bırakırmış yağlı bijon bırakmazmış.  aratalım bakalım gavur sitelerine..

[Mehmet Göktürk]

Hmm:

 

"If you lube, then you MUST reduce the torque by a "K" factor. Don't know what a "K" factor is? Then do NOT lube the threads prior to applying the specified torque. Doing so will create an overtorque condition.

 

"

 

 

Diyor ki yağlarsan daha az sıkman lazım gelir çünkü tork değeri çok yükselir aynı zorlamaya. Yani tabanca ayarını yağlı için DÜŞÜRMEN gerekir diyor. Çok ilginç.. Yağsız olunca çok sert zorlayabiliyoruz sıkmak için. yağlayınca aynı oranda zorlarsak dişleri bozarmışız.

 

Ah well, some of the formulas didn't turn out too well, but I think you get the picture. Most torque specs are for unlubricated hardware!

 

 

 

Yani bilinen sıkma değerleri kuru içindir diyor. yağlı için aynı zorlama ile sıkarsan dişlere daha çok germe yapar diyor. 

 

Sonuç negatif....

 

 

Şimdi ben ne yapayım?

23 Nisan 2014 tarihinde Mehmet G&#246ktürk tarafından düzenlendi

[Mehmet Göktürk]

Tahminlerinizin aksine yağlayınca gevşeme ndeniyle değil dişlerin bozulması (çok sıkılır diye) sözkonusuymuş:

 

kuru 100 sıkılan bir bijon yağlanırsa 150 ile sıkılmış gibi oluyormuş.  (corvette forumundan)

 

 

"NEVER use Antiseize on these bolts. A 100ft.lb on a Antiseze bolt is like 150ft.lb on a dry bolt. If you really want to use antiseize, you need to reduce the on torque depending on the K factor of your antiseize (to achieve similar bolt stretch)"

23 Nisan 2014 tarihinde Mehmet G&#246ktürk tarafından düzenlendi

[Mehmet Göktürk]

Zamanı olan bunu okusun ben okudum. janta değen kafasına sürmemek şartı ile ve tabanca ile sıkmamak sıkarsan da az güce ayarlamak şartı ile olabilirmiş.

 

The general consensus seems to be that the use of anti seize on vehicle lug nuts that are properly torqued, is not going to contribute to the lug nuts loosening. It seems wherever I posted, more people reported using anti seize on lug nuts for years without any problems, than people advised against it.

It also seems to be considered that the application of lubricants in general to properly torqued fasteners will not contribute to their loosening. It is generally considered that traverse movement is what causes fasteners to loosen www.boltscience.com.

However, it probably makes good sense that the anti seize be very sparingly applied to *only* the lug stud thread and *not* the contact or interface point between the end of the lug nut and the rim. The question of whether or not to decrease the manufacturers torque specifications to account for the application of anti seize is debatable, but if you can keep the anti seize off of the contact point between the end of the lug nut where it seats in the rim, you are probably better off staying with the manufacturers specified torque. The following information will explain why. 

I found some info regarding wheel stud failure here...

  
The link directly below goes to a page with some interesting information regarding the difference in axial loads (preload) obtained when coating *only* the threads with anti seize, and when coating both the threads *and* under the bolt head or nut. Apparently, if the information is reliable, there is a huge change in axial load when you coat both the threads and under the bolt head or nut, as compared with hardly any change in axial load when you apply anti seize to *only* the threads and not under the bolt head or nut.

http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleTorqueWrench.html

If you look at the table / charts provided near the bottom of the page at the link directly above, using anti seize on the *thread only* shows slightly less axial load than using no lubricant at all. This is probably due to the wide variation in friction of identical bolts with dry un-lubricated threads, which can be as much as +/- 25% to +/- 50%.. See the following links for more information.

http://www.surebolt.com/

http://www.rstechltd.com/TITERITE.PDF

http://www.rstechltd.com/Advanced%20Torque%20Auditing-FTI%20Oct%202001.pdf

http://www.rstechltd.com/Technical_articles.htm (some more articles here)

http://www.hexagon.de/dose/dose-1e.pdf

http://euler9.tripod.com/fasteners/preload.html

They say that about 90% of the input torque of the torque wrench is consumed by friction, with 50% of the friction being between the bolt head and mounting surface, 40% of the friction being in the threads, & only 10% being the stretch of the bolt which produces the axial force or preload.

The article at mechanicsupport.com references another article titled "Failure of bolts in helicopter main rotor drive plate assembly due to improper application of lubricant" by N. Eliaz, G. Gheorghiu, H. Sheinkopf, O. Levi, G. Shemesh, A. Mordecai, H. Artzi, Published in Engineering Failure Analysis #10, pages 443-451

Here is a link to the article published in engineering failure analysis.

http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~neliaz/Papers_Files/C27.pdf

Regarding the article at the link directly above, it seems it was not the use of anti seize that was causing failure of the helicopter rotor bolts, but rather the improper application of anti seize that was causing failure, namely applying anti seize under the bolt head or nut instead of only applying it to the fastener threads. Applying anti seize under the bolt heads and/or nuts increased axial loads substantially. It also appears Tightening by turning the bolt instead of, as specified, the nut, resulted in more torque going into bolt tension rather than being absorbed by bolt head friction.

Would it be unreasonable to require engineers to design all *critical* threaded joints & related components (wheel lugs, helicopter rotors, etc. anything where a life may be at stake) to be able to withstand the maximum axial loads produced by torquing lubricated threads to specs with a torque wrench ? The lubricants vary, so they should design for the lube that produces the lowest friction.

It seems anti seize and/or lube on threaded joints is a good idea in most cases, plus applying the lube produces more consistent and accurate transmission of torque, so it would appear to make sense to always design for a lubricated joint.

I have also read that research has shown that not lubricating the thread and nut face will result in the friction value increasing on re-tightening which subsequently reduces the preload for a given torque value. This would be especially important regarding lug nuts, which are being removed & re-tightened frequently for tire rotations.  

It seems all torque specifications should specify both dry and lubricated threads for reference, & if lubrication or anti seize is required or recommended, it's exact application method should be specified. Although ideally the joint would be designed to withstand a worse case scenario application of lube on both the threads and under the bolt head.

At the http://www.boltscience.com website, they say that it is actually transverse joint movement that causes loosening of threaded fasteners. In the case of a wheel, friction between the wheel and the hub prevent traverse movement. The friction is generated by the axial force generated by the torqued lug nuts.

Because of traverse movement causing joint loosening, it's probably best to not use anti seize or any lube on the back side of the rim where it contacts the rotors, hub, or brake drums.

My feeling is the benefit of using anti seize on lug nut studs outweigh any concerns of problems it may cause. I do think it is a good idea to apply the anti seize very sparingly to the lug studs, and to try to not get any anti seize on the contact point between the end of the lug & where it seats in the rim lug recesses.

The last time I used anti seize on lug nuts, I think the vay I did it was to smear a small dab of anti seize on the end of the lug stud, then run a lug nut on the stud by hand back and forth until a thin film of anti seize covers most all the stud (almost up to the rim). I ran the nut back and forth on the stud enough times so that it did not push a glob of anti seize between the end of the lug and where the lug seats in the rim when I was ready to finally tighten the lugs down. I wiped off any anti seize at the lug end as required.

If anti seize is used however, it seems wise to be extra careful to make sure that any shop you take your vehicle too only uses a hand torque wrench to tighten the lugs to the correct torque.

The main question that remains is whether to torque the lugs to manufacturers specs or reduce the torque by a percentage to compensate for any increase in axial loads due to the anti seize. Based on the information given above, & my experience, my guess is to just torque the lugs to manufacturers specs, especially if you use the anti seize very sparingly and can keep it off the end of the lug nuts where they seat with the rims.

This has worked for me and I think the fact that it did not warp my rotors is a clue that the axial loads are not too outrageous. Shops warp rotors all the time with power impact wrenches, and they might turn or replace your rotors, but they don't replace the lug studs as a precaution for the possibility of them being overstressed by the impact which warped the rotors.

This reasoning may not apply to all vehicles, especially larger tucks, but for most pickups and cars, I would think that if you have not warped the rotors and you do not feel any brake pulsations, then you probably have not overstressed the lug nuts & studs to a point of any real concern. Impact wrenches break lug studs off all the time, I doubt anyone has broken a lug stud off with a hand torque wrench, whether coated with anti seize or not. I doubt any rotors have been warped with a hand torque wrench, anti seize on lug studs or not.

John

 

Saplamalarıda yağlamadı inşallah   

 

Aslında saplamaları yağladı. dişlerinin dibini.

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/failure4.htm

[Mehmet Göktürk]

Effect of Lubrication on Torque
Torque Rating in Foot/Pounds
Lubricant ½-13 thread/inch
NO LUBE, steel 121
Plated & cleaned 90 (26%)
SAE 20 oil 87 (28%)
SAE 40 oil 83 (31%)
Plated & SAE 30 79 (35%)
White grease 79 (35%)
Dry Moly film 66 (45%)
Graphite $ oil 62 (49%)

That being said and done. I oil my studs as needed with a lube from a spray can. Tighten the nuts on the steel wheels with an air impact wrench (don't over do it) and torque the nuts on my alum wheels. From past experience, I know whats tight and I know I can loosen the nuts with my four cross lug wrench.

 

1 - I lubricate the threads only - The lug nut is supposed to turn on threads with your finger - the thread friction provides nearly nothing in terms of the final tension - I use anti-seize compound but have used, white lithium, but wouldn't hesitate to use oil

2 - I don't put a lubricant on the bevel of lug nut or any part of the rim - THIS is the friction point during tightening 

3 - I've never had one come off - if the studs are in good shape, I can turn them with my fingers - what aid to "final tightening" does that add - none - in fact, if after putting a bit of lubricant on the threads, if the nut doesn't easily turn on the threads, they should be replaced

4 - if they (the lug nuts) turn easily (no corrosion or debris in the threads) you don't need to add ANY lubricant anyway - if you have any significant corrosion, replace them

5 - use minimal anti-seize compound in the threads only and torque the nuts - no issue and you won't over torque either